Wherein you, the readers, talk amongst yourselves
Branching off of the comments section of this post — what is required for someone to called African American? What does the term mean to you? Do you think it's a good descriptor for black Americans?
Definition: American of black African descent. Black? Where your ancestors from 300, 500 or 1000 Africa? Congrats! You're African American.
Very broad definition: American whose ancestors at any point came from Africa. This would include Charlize Theron, colonists and lots of Asian and European people who migrated there at some point for one reason or another
Americans tend to limit their definition of this to black descendants of slaves which is why those who aren't will at times hear that they and their opinions on related matters don't "count."
It might seem like splitting hairs, but I don't feel African-American. More African/American depending or African American. Hyphenation implies a level of assimilation that I simply don't aspire to.
I am a Black American. I along with my parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents, was born here in the U.S. of A. Yes we are descendants of Africa, but according to the latest in science, so is everyone.
I think AA is a(un)PC term created to make this nation's majority feel more comfortable. Bury it with nigger (oh, I forgot, that one won't die either).
It can be somewhat of a misnomer, for those black families who have been in America for many, many decades. I often think of the quote from "Boyz n' the Hood" when they are young, in the classroom: I ain't from Africa, I'm from Crenshaw!
I don't understand why "black" is somewhat un-PC. But then I don't understand why East Asian people "yellow" is offensive and also why calling Southeast Asian people "brown" is un-PC. These questions are generally referring to race. "African American" isn't really a race nor is it really an ethnic group. The only ethnic groups of interest to the census bureau, researchers and society is "Hispanic" and "non-Hispanic."
A person who is consider as an African-American to be a person whose family migrated to America from Africa or a person of African descent. I think it is a good description for Black Americans to some extent because of West-Indian people who do not consider theirselves African-American and want to be recognized by their country (Jamaica, Haiti, Bahamas, etc.). At first, I considered myself an African-American because I wanted to be associated with a culture. I grew up with friends from South America, Asia , Haiti and Africa, who talked about their families back where they were born and the traditions they had from their culture, I envied that. But now I'm okay with Black American as well.
I am black, I am an American citizen. I was not born or raised in an African country. My family is not from Africa.
I would be considered a black American, but i am not African American.
I really don't se what's wrong with being called "African American." Asians aren't called "yellow", whites are called "caucasian/european." Basically… we're the only people described by a color (one that most of us aren't). African American refers to people of African descent (the Africa diaspora). My parents are African immigrants from a country in Africa called Nigeria, therefore I am "Nigerian-American". Maybe u guys don't know this, but Africa is a continent, not a country. Therefore "we" are identify with our country of origin or even better, our tribe. But if u guys want to go by "black," who am I to stop u. Just make sure u have another box for the rest of us (the carribeans and Africans).
I find that most Carribeans and Africans identify by their country of origin. They're 1st or 2nd generation Americans, whose family history can easily be traced back to a particular country. The same is not true for many Black Americans. Because of the effects slavery and a lack of written history, most black Americans are not able to thoroughly account for all of their background.
Personally, I'm okay with American, or black American. I understand that black American is more related to the culture of people, than it is tied to country of origin. In my family we can trace back our family tree at least 150 years or so. The thing is…there's Irish in them there roots, just as there is African/black blood.
It's my personal belief that the term "African American" is best applied to people who are descendants of African enslaved born and reared in America. I believe this is so because it helps define the distinct cultural combination or collision of African traditions and American conventions. Although most of us have never been to Africa we carry a part of it inside of us with every superstition old folks behoove us to uphold, those family traditions we can't quite explain, our music (to this day, drums are a major instrument in most African American music, period) our food (yams are also a West African staple, although they're called something else, etc.) our churches, etc. To me "African American" is more than just a racial designation. It is a culture.
In my eyes, I am connected to Africa and to other people scattered throughout the Diaspora and to deny that would be to deny that the evils of slavery ever happened. It ain't like my ancestors "heard there was religious freedom" and just popped up here.
After considering the Charlize Theron argument, I don't think "African American" is really accurate. I don't think "Black" should satisfy either cuz that isn't a label that was created by our people. Asiatic perhaps? *Shrugs*
I consider myself Nigerian American cuz when I think of the term "African-American," I think of a person who's generations deep in this country with slave ancestors. I'm a first-generation American so I don't feel as though I qualify and many Black Americans don't feel that I qualify either as I have been asked "You're not Black,' right?" *SMH* I will check off whatever applies when filling out a form ;-p
I'm american. Adding the african is as ridiculous as calling myself a gay american.
I have never heard a white person refer to themselves as european-american, so when I hear black people (most of whom couldn't find africa on a map) refer to themselves as african-american, I just roll my eyes.
I remember when I was in college on the East Coast in '01 I sat in a panel and argued to no end why I prefer the term black as opposed to African-American.
On that panel, I felt like my difference from the norm was a culture and class issue. But reading this string, I'm not so sure.
I prefer it because like most american folks with brown skin - I am not just African (whatever country(ies) my roots can be traced to, but french, spanish, native american and so on and on. In fact I have visited several countries in Southern Africa and most people could tell (b4 I opened my mouth) that I was not from there.
Most importantly though, my parents were the generation of the black power movement. Those values, sense of pride and solidarity are notions I grew up with and still hold with great pride.
Now while I prefer this term for myself, I don't knock anyone else for their preference of african-american, american or whatever they want to be called because at the end of the day I am, you are and we are all who we are based on our personal experiences.
I'm not white, or red, or black….. I'm BROWN!
from the Boogie Down(Lyrics from My Philosophy, KRS One)
I just hate LABELS.
Basically I am who I am, I really don't care about what label you place on me cause I know who I am. The problem with labels is that you they don't represent who a person really is and often people become offended when you label them, because it does not describe who they really are, only who we think they are. Take someone that has parents that are not of the same race. Many of them hate when you label them as one race, cause it excludes the other, as if the other does not exist. Then some hate the terms mixed or biracial because those terms don't allow them to be included in the majority. I heard Lenny Kravitz say one time that he knows who he is, He has a black mother, and a jewish father, but he understood that the world would always identify him as being black. What matters is how you see yourself, and for the record I see myself as being black, in terms of race that is…
@sweett–"It’s my personal belief that the term 'African American' is best applied to people who are descendants of African enslaved born and reared in America. I believe this is so because it helps define the distinct cultural combination or collision of African traditions and American conventions."
I co-sign with this. If I may add some more to it? Henry Louis Gates, in his documentary, "African American Lives" did genetic maps of several celebrities. Yes, quite a few of them had genetic ties to various groups in Europe and Asia, but even when he looked at the "African" genes, he found that these celebrities came from various African groups. Now,some of us may not have the resources to afford such tests, but it's that polyglot of African genes–forged here in the US mostly through American slavery–is partially what is meant, IMHO, by "African American." As JackJohnson said, "Because of the effects slavery and a lack of written history, most black Americans are not able to thoroughly account for all of their background." So, when I hear some Black folks say, "African American," what I think they're saying is, "We're not quite sure all of where we came from, but we know our ancestors came from some parts of that continent."
I don't refer to myself as "Black" because "Black" has no history to it, thought I like to use it when I tire of typing "African American.":-D "African" and "African American" does–and it gives me a starting point to think about myself and my place in this world. However, to paraphrase Dr. Cornel West, beyond the phenotypes–and the rich struggle against the bigotry aimed at the phenotype–"Blackness" is up for grabs.
They taught us suburban white kids that "African American" was correct when I was in school, but in terms of physical description, I've gone back to black, and no one seems to mind. And it's better than being flat-out inaccurate; the Nigerian girl I met in college politely reminded me that she was not a U.S. citizen. And the Jamaicans felt neither the "African" nor the "American" applied to them. So if I'm asking "Hey, do you know so-and-so, tall black guy, works on the 3rd floor?", black will have to do. At what point someone from Ghana becomes an "African American" I suppose is up to them.
MyOpinionCountsToo says:
Why can’t we all be Americans without the descriptor?
Because that's not how America operates. According to this article, people like myself and Obama who are Black and have African parents don't give off this sense of "full-blooded Americanism." Some have even gone on to suggest that we're not Black and that's an assessment that aneurysms are born out of.
The only white people who refer to themselves by the country of origin are the first generation ones as well as Greeks, Italians and Irish people.
My parents are African immigrants from a country in Africa called Nigeria, therefore I am “Nigerian-American”. Maybe u guys don’t know this, but Africa is a continent, not a country.
Thank. You. This has come to become one of my biggest pet peeves. It's amazing to me that the more worldly Americans will know Puerto Rico from Cuba from Haiti from Jamaica from Panama though these are relatively small areas, but Africa for some reason is one big clump. It wouldn't really annoy me if there weren't sweeping and generally inaccurate generalizations made about all of the continent. Addis, Abuja, Capetown, Zanzibar, Nairobi and Khartoum are all VERY different places with different cultures, values, problems, etc.
Therefore “we” are identify with our country of origin or even better, our tribe.
True. I do too but I don't feel mislabeled or offended by being called a black American or African American. I also identify myself by my tribe and my country of origin. But if u guys want to go by “black,” who am I to stop u. Just make sure u have another box for the rest of us (the carribeans and Africans).
To some extent, this is splitting hairs. If it's the census, then fine. If I'm filling out a survey or whatever else, then it seems like it's being done for the sake of being PC when what they are really trying to do is put you in some box for statistical purposes.
I'm reposting part of this from the other (Brangelina/Zahara) thread because it applies here as well!
First I just want to say I see these labels as useful for categorization purposes only. Obviously it makes no sense to apply broad labels to vast groups of people. Individuals reserve the right to label themselves (if they so choose). I’ve always felt that African-American is an effective and disambiguated way to categorize black Americans (second generation or older) who are descended from African slaves or other blacks who immigrated to the US (not all blacks [or Africans for that matter] came here as slaves).
For descriptive purposes I don’t feel black is specific enough because to me black is a global term. Everyone from Latinas/os to Dalits to Aboriginals to Pacific Island Negritas/os to Papuans to Polynesians and of course various members of the African diaspora can be considered black. I see how Africans who immigrate to the US could be labeled African-American and that would be accurate but usually people are labeled by the country they come from, hence Irish-American, Korean-American, Mexican-American etc. For example, I would call Charlize Theron South African-American.
As for all of this color label confusion I'd just like to say that Latinos and East Indians often refer to themselves as "brown." It's more a term of convenience/kinship than an accurate descriptor of skin tone.
Well, a few months ago, a family member told me "you are an African-American, embrace both sides." I understood what she meant since I am an American born individual born to African parents.
But I'll say this, with my travels especially my last trip to Africa, I'm spotted as an "Americana."
@ Ike:
Come on! Charlize Theron is of European descent. Do you know how long the British colonized different parts of Africa? Some folks who are identified black are mixed with European genes already. You could see that with several individuals with English last names.
JackJohnson, blacks from the carribean came over on slave ships too. It was a part of the triangle trade.
SWEET-Honey you said it best. I feel the exact same way.
Solitare- I have heard a number of white-Americans call themselves Irish, Italien, German etc… and they can't speak a bit of any European language besides English.
In general dialouge, I see no harm in being reffered to as "black." But when it comes to documents, books, articles and such, I think it's innapropriate.
@Afroamericawriter:
Colonialism doesn't make them African. How many of the whites there know the native languages and culture? Would they also be considered to be "sub-saharan?"
@Solitaire:
Is it as ridiculous as blacks referring to African slaves (who did hop off the boat) as their ancestors?
I went to a new salon a couple of weeks ago and because of my "ambiguous" features to this lady she asked me where I was from. When she got wind of my heritage, she was so excited because she couldn't believe a white lady who just walked by identified herself as "African" (South-African to be exact). And here I was, apparently black could be of a similar heritage.
In my mind, I was thinking "that's allowed." You could be black and white and have the same heritage.
Definition: American of black African descent. Black? Where your ancestors from 300, 500 or 1000 Africa? Congrats! You're African American.
Very broad definition: American whose ancestors at any point came from Africa. This would include Charlize Theron, colonists and lots of Asian and European people who migrated there at some point for one reason or another
Americans tend to limit their definition of this to black descendants of slaves which is why those who aren't will at times hear that they and their opinions on related matters don't "count."
It might seem like splitting hairs, but I don't feel African-American. More African/American depending or African American. Hyphenation implies a level of assimilation that I simply don't aspire to.
I am a Black American. I along with my parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents, was born here in the U.S. of A. Yes we are descendants of Africa, but according to the latest in science, so is everyone.
I think AA is a(un)PC term created to make this nation's majority feel more comfortable. Bury it with nigger (oh, I forgot, that one won't die either).
It can be somewhat of a misnomer, for those black families who have been in America for many, many decades. I often think of the quote from "Boyz n' the Hood" when they are young, in the classroom: I ain't from Africa, I'm from Crenshaw!
I don't understand why "black" is somewhat un-PC. But then I don't understand why East Asian people "yellow" is offensive and also why calling Southeast Asian people "brown" is un-PC. These questions are generally referring to race. "African American" isn't really a race nor is it really an ethnic group. The only ethnic groups of interest to the census bureau, researchers and society is "Hispanic" and "non-Hispanic."
A person who is consider as an African-American to be a person whose family migrated to America from Africa or a person of African descent. I think it is a good description for Black Americans to some extent because of West-Indian people who do not consider theirselves African-American and want to be recognized by their country (Jamaica, Haiti, Bahamas, etc.). At first, I considered myself an African-American because I wanted to be associated with a culture. I grew up with friends from South America, Asia , Haiti and Africa, who talked about their families back where they were born and the traditions they had from their culture, I envied that. But now I'm okay with Black American as well.
I am black, I am an American citizen. I was not born or raised in an African country. My family is not from Africa.
I would be considered a black American, but i am not African American.
Teresa Heinz Kerry is African American, and she doesn't look like me!
I am Black American born and raised all day long….sixth generation New Yorker too.
I really don't se what's wrong with being called "African American." Asians aren't called "yellow", whites are called "caucasian/european." Basically… we're the only people described by a color (one that most of us aren't). African American refers to people of African descent (the Africa diaspora). My parents are African immigrants from a country in Africa called Nigeria, therefore I am "Nigerian-American". Maybe u guys don't know this, but Africa is a continent, not a country. Therefore "we" are identify with our country of origin or even better, our tribe. But if u guys want to go by "black," who am I to stop u. Just make sure u have another box for the rest of us (the carribeans and Africans).
I find that most Carribeans and Africans identify by their country of origin. They're 1st or 2nd generation Americans, whose family history can easily be traced back to a particular country. The same is not true for many Black Americans. Because of the effects slavery and a lack of written history, most black Americans are not able to thoroughly account for all of their background.
Personally, I'm okay with American, or black American. I understand that black American is more related to the culture of people, than it is tied to country of origin. In my family we can trace back our family tree at least 150 years or so. The thing is…there's Irish in them there roots, just as there is African/black blood.
It's my personal belief that the term "African American" is best applied to people who are descendants of African enslaved born and reared in America. I believe this is so because it helps define the distinct cultural combination or collision of African traditions and American conventions. Although most of us have never been to Africa we carry a part of it inside of us with every superstition old folks behoove us to uphold, those family traditions we can't quite explain, our music (to this day, drums are a major instrument in most African American music, period) our food (yams are also a West African staple, although they're called something else, etc.) our churches, etc. To me "African American" is more than just a racial designation. It is a culture.
In my eyes, I am connected to Africa and to other people scattered throughout the Diaspora and to deny that would be to deny that the evils of slavery ever happened. It ain't like my ancestors "heard there was religious freedom" and just popped up here.
After considering the Charlize Theron argument, I don't think "African American" is really accurate. I don't think "Black" should satisfy either cuz that isn't a label that was created by our people. Asiatic perhaps? *Shrugs*
I consider myself Nigerian American cuz when I think of the term "African-American," I think of a person who's generations deep in this country with slave ancestors. I'm a first-generation American so I don't feel as though I qualify and many Black Americans don't feel that I qualify either as I have been asked "You're not Black,' right?" *SMH* I will check off whatever applies when filling out a form ;-p
I'm american. Adding the african is as ridiculous as calling myself a gay american.
I have never heard a white person refer to themselves as european-american, so when I hear black people (most of whom couldn't find africa on a map) refer to themselves as african-american, I just roll my eyes.
@solitare:
Whites simply refer to themselves as "European" or "Caucasian." If that's the case, why not simply refer to yourself as "African?"
Btw, Charlize is only South African, not African. She is of European descent (we all know that).
Why can't we all be Americans without the descriptor?
I remember when I was in college on the East Coast in '01 I sat in a panel and argued to no end why I prefer the term black as opposed to African-American.
On that panel, I felt like my difference from the norm was a culture and class issue. But reading this string, I'm not so sure.
I prefer it because like most american folks with brown skin - I am not just African (whatever country(ies) my roots can be traced to, but french, spanish, native american and so on and on. In fact I have visited several countries in Southern Africa and most people could tell (b4 I opened my mouth) that I was not from there.
Most importantly though, my parents were the generation of the black power movement. Those values, sense of pride and solidarity are notions I grew up with and still hold with great pride.
Now while I prefer this term for myself, I don't knock anyone else for their preference of african-american, american or whatever they want to be called because at the end of the day I am, you are and we are all who we are based on our personal experiences.
I'm not white, or red, or black….. I'm BROWN!
from the Boogie Down(Lyrics from My Philosophy, KRS One)
I just hate LABELS.
Basically I am who I am, I really don't care about what label you place on me cause I know who I am. The problem with labels is that you they don't represent who a person really is and often people become offended when you label them, because it does not describe who they really are, only who we think they are. Take someone that has parents that are not of the same race. Many of them hate when you label them as one race, cause it excludes the other, as if the other does not exist. Then some hate the terms mixed or biracial because those terms don't allow them to be included in the majority. I heard Lenny Kravitz say one time that he knows who he is, He has a black mother, and a jewish father, but he understood that the world would always identify him as being black. What matters is how you see yourself, and for the record I see myself as being black, in terms of race that is…
@sweett–"It’s my personal belief that the term 'African American' is best applied to people who are descendants of African enslaved born and reared in America. I believe this is so because it helps define the distinct cultural combination or collision of African traditions and American conventions."
I co-sign with this. If I may add some more to it? Henry Louis Gates, in his documentary, "African American Lives" did genetic maps of several celebrities. Yes, quite a few of them had genetic ties to various groups in Europe and Asia, but even when he looked at the "African" genes, he found that these celebrities came from various African groups. Now,some of us may not have the resources to afford such tests, but it's that polyglot of African genes–forged here in the US mostly through American slavery–is partially what is meant, IMHO, by "African American." As JackJohnson said, "Because of the effects slavery and a lack of written history, most black Americans are not able to thoroughly account for all of their background." So, when I hear some Black folks say, "African American," what I think they're saying is, "We're not quite sure all of where we came from, but we know our ancestors came from some parts of that continent."
I don't refer to myself as "Black" because "Black" has no history to it, thought I like to use it when I tire of typing "African American.":-D "African" and "African American" does–and it gives me a starting point to think about myself and my place in this world. However, to paraphrase Dr. Cornel West, beyond the phenotypes–and the rich struggle against the bigotry aimed at the phenotype–"Blackness" is up for grabs.
Sorry for the ramble…
@Ike
I don't know what (if any) white people you hang with, but i've yet to know any that refer to themselves as "european" or even "causcasian".
Black people refering to themselves as african-american, as if they just got off a boat is just ridiculous.
They taught us suburban white kids that "African American" was correct when I was in school, but in terms of physical description, I've gone back to black, and no one seems to mind. And it's better than being flat-out inaccurate; the Nigerian girl I met in college politely reminded me that she was not a U.S. citizen. And the Jamaicans felt neither the "African" nor the "American" applied to them. So if I'm asking "Hey, do you know so-and-so, tall black guy, works on the 3rd floor?", black will have to do. At what point someone from Ghana becomes an "African American" I suppose is up to them.
MyOpinionCountsToo says:
Why can’t we all be Americans without the descriptor?
Because that's not how America operates. According to this article, people like myself and Obama who are Black and have African parents don't give off this sense of "full-blooded Americanism." Some have even gone on to suggest that we're not Black and that's an assessment that aneurysms are born out of.
The only white people who refer to themselves by the country of origin are the first generation ones as well as Greeks, Italians and Irish people.
My parents are African immigrants from a country in Africa called Nigeria, therefore I am “Nigerian-American”. Maybe u guys don’t know this, but Africa is a continent, not a country.
Thank. You. This has come to become one of my biggest pet peeves. It's amazing to me that the more worldly Americans will know Puerto Rico from Cuba from Haiti from Jamaica from Panama though these are relatively small areas, but Africa for some reason is one big clump. It wouldn't really annoy me if there weren't sweeping and generally inaccurate generalizations made about all of the continent. Addis, Abuja, Capetown, Zanzibar, Nairobi and Khartoum are all VERY different places with different cultures, values, problems, etc.
Therefore “we” are identify with our country of origin or even better, our tribe.
True. I do too but I don't feel mislabeled or offended by being called a black American or African American. I also identify myself by my tribe and my country of origin.
But if u guys want to go by “black,” who am I to stop u. Just make sure u have another box for the rest of us (the carribeans and Africans).
To some extent, this is splitting hairs. If it's the census, then fine. If I'm filling out a survey or whatever else, then it seems like it's being done for the sake of being PC when what they are really trying to do is put you in some box for statistical purposes.
I'm reposting part of this from the other (Brangelina/Zahara) thread because it applies here as well!
First I just want to say I see these labels as useful for categorization purposes only. Obviously it makes no sense to apply broad labels to vast groups of people. Individuals reserve the right to label themselves (if they so choose). I’ve always felt that African-American is an effective and disambiguated way to categorize black Americans (second generation or older) who are descended from African slaves or other blacks who immigrated to the US (not all blacks [or Africans for that matter] came here as slaves).
For descriptive purposes I don’t feel black is specific enough because to me black is a global term. Everyone from Latinas/os to Dalits to Aboriginals to Pacific Island Negritas/os to Papuans to Polynesians and of course various members of the African diaspora can be considered black. I see how Africans who immigrate to the US could be labeled African-American and that would be accurate but usually people are labeled by the country they come from, hence Irish-American, Korean-American, Mexican-American etc. For example, I would call Charlize Theron South African-American.
As for all of this color label confusion I'd just like to say that Latinos and East Indians often refer to themselves as "brown." It's more a term of convenience/kinship than an accurate descriptor of skin tone.
Well, a few months ago, a family member told me "you are an African-American, embrace both sides." I understood what she meant since I am an American born individual born to African parents.
But I'll say this, with my travels especially my last trip to Africa, I'm spotted as an "Americana."
@ Ike:
Come on! Charlize Theron is of European descent. Do you know how long the British colonized different parts of Africa? Some folks who are identified black are mixed with European genes already. You could see that with several individuals with English last names.
JackJohnson, blacks from the carribean came over on slave ships too. It was a part of the triangle trade.
SWEET-Honey you said it best. I feel the exact same way.
Solitare- I have heard a number of white-Americans call themselves Irish, Italien, German etc… and they can't speak a bit of any European language besides English.
In general dialouge, I see no harm in being reffered to as "black." But when it comes to documents, books, articles and such, I think it's innapropriate.
@Afroamericawriter:
Colonialism doesn't make them African. How many of the whites there know the native languages and culture? Would they also be considered to be "sub-saharan?"
@Solitaire:
Is it as ridiculous as blacks referring to African slaves (who did hop off the boat) as their ancestors?
Ike:
I went to a new salon a couple of weeks ago and because of my "ambiguous" features to this lady she asked me where I was from. When she got wind of my heritage, she was so excited because she couldn't believe a white lady who just walked by identified herself as "African" (South-African to be exact). And here I was, apparently black could be of a similar heritage.
In my mind, I was thinking "that's allowed." You could be black and white and have the same heritage.
I have never ever accepted that term, African American. I am a black woman and I always refer to myself as such.
When I speak, write, discuss, post or what have you, I always say "black". That is who we are.