exactly.

This article is extremely sexist towards black men like myself who would love to date a black woman except they're all attracted to Thugnificent with 50 kids or some white kid with money.

You could have taken a step and explored issues from both sides instead of just going with the stereotype that black men usually want to date white women.

Also it's important to note that black men don't want to date black women not because they're too "sassy" or whatever, it's just that white girls are generally easier to get into bed.

Sure there may be some that can't deal with a "strong" black female, but they can't deal with a strong female period and just want some booty.

LOL @ Sam Jenkins and his reading comprehension skills.

Seems to me that "Sam Jenkins" missed the point that this post was sort of the female counterpoint to Cord's and the comments he was receiving. It wasn't meant to put down black men, nor make assumptions about their preferences. It's merely a response of support and understanding about historical perspective on some black women's feelings on interracial dating. Nothing more.

Tricky thing, that reading comprehension.

Great post, Lauren!

except they’re all attracted to Thugnificent with 50 kids or some white kid with money.

The "all black women want thugs" lie rears it's ugly head.

And apparently if "all black women" can't get a thug, they're pulling white kids with money.

Whatever…

Agreed with Bari.

Sexism: unfair putting-down of, stereotyping, and discrimination against the opposite gender.

I don't see Lauren doing any of that in this post, it's tastefully written, mature, and honestly expresses a viewpoint that some black women go through.

Sam, I'd say you are the sexist one for thinking all black women are trying to date Thugnificent whatever. Thanks for generalizing us. With an attitude like that, your dating options (black or white) will be limited.

okay, how terrific is Lauren? love, love, love this.

Sam,

Lauren's is speaking to ladies from a female point of view. how about you write the article that you wish she had written?

smh @ Sam Jenkins' reading comprehension skills.

Actually I have great reading comprehension skills, however my post gives a candid answer to the question she was asking. Yes, she wrote a feel good article about history and blah blah blah and yay everyone can love anyone and you wouldn't want to love them anyway.

But the truth isn't that pretty. It's just base feeling and raw emotion. There was your answer but you wanted to have some intellectual masturbation over it instead of someone telling you upfront the reason why.

Not only that, I gave a perspective on an average black male who would love to date a black female except they're attracted to thugs. You'd think that what you would gather from my post is that the genders are just two lost souls swimming in the same fishbowl, but you sought to bash me to make yourself feel smart. Except now you look dumb.

Terrible post, Lauren. You need to live in the real world longer. Same goes with the other two posters.

aries304:

This article just generalized black men. Let's use some logic, thanks.

souldecirce:

There's no point, just by reading these comments I can tell you're all living in a echo chamber here.

Not only that, I gave a perspective on an average black male who would love to date a black female except they’re attracted to thugs.

What are you, 10 years old? "All" black "females" (not women) are attracted to thugs?

I thought you were just a troll who dropped in to try and discredit Lauren's post, but clearly you are just young and immature.

Moving on…

If all you can do is insult me instead of debate them it's you that is immature. I certainly didn't mean all, but many of them are quite fond of saying they want "A thug with an education" and you can't deny that.

Also, if you're going to argue semantics instead of the issue, then you might as well move on and do the same from her article which gives an arbitrary number of black men that date outside their race.

Sam,
i ask you again: why you don't write the article you want written?

you act as if there isn't room for two experiences (black girls feeling shunned; black guys feeling shunned). both happen.

running over the same old ground. of how we found. the same old fears.

souldecirce:

Extreme laziness and its easier to just post post post!

Post!

Sam,
i ask you again: why you don’t write the article you want written?

you act as if there isn’t room for two experiences (black girls feeling shunned; black guys feeling shunned). both happen.

That is too much like making sense Souldecirce. But then again, maybe I am just blinded by my "true" desire for a "thug with an education." Yeah, that's it!

"You need to live in the real world longer. Same goes with the other two posters."

Don't know what other world I could be living in, Mr. Jenkins. Then again, I'm married to an engineer with an advanced degree, so clearly I'm not attracted to Thugnificent, or whatever you are calling the rest of your brothers.

Remember, you are still talking about our people. Why not show some respect and handle them with care, while you look down from your pedestal?

Have a good weekend.

Sam,

okay. now we're getting somewhere. maybe the girls you seek prefer mates who work, even if illegally.

glad to see you came back to our chamber.

Lauren,

I think women give way too much credit to us men. Men definitely approach a stage in life where they think with the wrong head and make bad decisions (where they should be responsible for). I also contend that white women are a bit "less inhibited by social norms to have sexual intercourse", especially around minority men because they are a sexual commodity, especially in college.

I should however revise that men at this stage generally go for the easier women instead of attributing this quality to just one set, so for that I apologize.

However my point still stands that many men are ruled by their penises until they mature and want something more meaningful and with substance. You just happen to see this more often with black males and frumpy white chicks where I think you should reasonably be annoyed with, mainly because the men are dumb.

But really, don't give men this much credit, I really did clear up an age old issue. Guy talk is crude.

Nichelle:

And I'm blinded by my white blonde blue-eyed goddess to make any headway to see your point. For she is the Celtic Goddess of Purity and Virtue. Oh my white queen, please show me the way to acceptance in America for I am a poor ignorant negro in debt to your burden.

If you want to have a sarcasm-off, I'm game and i'll win. However if you want to debate the issue, i'll be around as well.

And I’m blinded by my white blonde blue-eyed goddess to make any headway to see your point.

Apparently so. She's lucky that she waded through the sea of thugs out there with 50 kids and found you. Good luck with her… and with improving your reading comprehension skills.

I completely agree with you 100% Lauren. Great Post

If it's just about love, why are there certain IR patterns? For example, Asian women w/ white men, but the reverse is less common. Something else must be going on. This is not to say that the couples are not in love, but as for attraction….

I think some ppl date IR b/c the option is open to them and they don't really care (some black men). Other people don't really have the same choice for cultural or other reasons.

Lauren, I agree w/ you but it is hard as a straight black woman. I have a black lesbian friend who has said that she feels that her dating scene is easier than if she were straight. Of course, not everyone would agree.

This sting is not temporary, it is an ongoing pain: wondering if you will be one of the 42% of never married black women; going to social events to meet people with similar interests and most of the black men are in IR while the black women are not coupled; feeling as if you have to choose between a low black % area where many black and nonblack men will not be interested of a high black % area where you have to compete (and maybe unwillingly share) men. It doesn't help as a regular black woman- not mixed, not long-haired, not green eyed.

Based on stereotyped man-woman divisions, this gender imbalance is so destructive to the black community b/c not enough black men of a certain age see the benefits of settling down w/ one person despite the benefits to health and well being, in addition to the benefits to kids growing up in a 2 parent home.

There are lots of marriage-minded black men out there, but not enough for marriage minded black women

In short, what on an individual level does not seem like rejection, over the aggregate or over time, feels like it.

Maybe a mail-order husband? [sarcasm]

Okay. Hold up. I like great guys and would NEVER date anyone who ever pretended to be a thug. I feel like a bad person for it sometimes but I would not date a man with kids. That's a little too complicated for me and I'm uncomfortable with the fact that a man had unprotected sex to be honest and if he's had it once, who knows how many others and how many kids there could be?! You could say, "oh, he was married so that doesn't count" but that's actually worse because that is the sort of living baggage I can't deal with. The black women I know must not be representative of the generally population. The ones in relationships with black men are all in relationships with 1st and 2nd generation Americans (West Indians and Africans) who are all very nice, sweet with no baby mamas. If you confuse sass for calling people on their shit, then yes, all my BW friends are sassy and so are all of my AW friends. I didn't have many AW friends in high school or college but when I got to grad school, I started to wonder where that meek, Geisha AW stereotype came from because there wasn't a drop of that.

I don't necessarily think it all has to do with who you grow up around. I'm attracted to my fellow J Crew crowd and yes, a lot of those men do date their female counterparts. The issue I have with that group, sexy as some of them are, is that they tend to sleep with a LOT of women. Women of all backgrounds are throwing themselves at them all the time and sorry, but few heterosexual young adult men would turn down no-commitment-required sex with a sexy woman. I don't even doubt that a lot of them will marry black women, but will they be faithful when they have little incentive to do so? Their black girlfriends tolerate it in that lovely Jackie O style so I'm sure when they become wives, they'll do the same. They're kinda like politicians and pro-athletes but they keep it legal and use protection.

Dude might as well be gay.

So good, Lauren. Thank you for this.

I'm so glad I found this blog and this conversation. Finally some rationally thinking Sistahs online to discuss real issues with little attitude and much intellect. Thanks Lauren…and everyone else that took time attempting to explain the article to Sam Jenkins.

Great post, but I had to chuckle at your assumption that most IR couples are based on love. That is really generous of you. I am not sure if the commonly held idea that fifty percent of all marriages end in divorce is true, but if it is true, then we should exam the reasons why. I would submit that probably about half of the people who marry or are in long lasting relationships are in those relationships for reasons other than love. Or rather, the reasons come first and "love" comes second. Consider a young woman marrying a rich older man. An older woman being with someone for companionship. A young woman, or man, right out of college who is scared of being alone. I think you can see where I am going with this. So why should IRs be exempt? I don't think that you can say that the majority, or that most IRs are composed of two people who love each other, period. I don't think they are any different from any other relationships.

And if that is in fact true, and that people are just finding people to love and that most people are jumping over previously strict barriers and finding love, then why the large population of single Black women? Are we less lovable than Asian, Latina or White women? I have tons of Black female friends and I don't know one personally that has ever dated an Asian man. I live in Cali, the land of IRs and, hmmm, no Asian men with Black women. I rarely see Chicano men with Black women (a caveat here, many Latino men on the East Coast love dark skinned women, but that is a whole nother thang). So, if IRs are so about love, why can't we as Black women be included? You know during the Civil Rights movement, one of the complaints of the young Black women who were a part of SNCC and other similar organizations, expressed their hurt that the Black males were dating the White women in surprising numbers. It is perhaps the en masse beginning of the hurt that you are talking about in your post.

So, when I see Asian men and Chicano men on college campuses (let's just start there) dating Black women with the same frequency that Black men date non-Black women, then we can have a real conversation.

ohhh…

Love sees color..

Date white guys too, they don't bite. That's my solution, its amazing how "even" things become then.

I'm a black male who has dated outside of my race. I don't prefer it. I agree that you love who you love, or more importantly, you're attracted to who you're attracted to. One thing I've noticed is that it is a lot easier for black women to date white men than the reverse. When I say easier, I mean that black women receive less guff about dating outside of their race than do black men, which is understandable because black women have unfortunately never been held up as the standard of beauty in history or the media. They've never been presented as the desirable ideal in the same way that the white woman has, which is totally ridiculous, but such is the world. I personally don't pass judgment when I see a black man or a black woman dating outside of their race because more often than not, you're just seeing two people in love, rather than one of them making a statement about how they feel or don't feel about their own people. I think we should just let love be love.

Excellent article Lauren!

Race. Dating. Beauty. Ahhhh.

There's a picture in today's NYTimes of a GORGEOUS black-as-coal babygirl in Sudan. That child is holding a white baby doll. Hmm. Who in the cottonpickin SUDAN looks like that doll? How did *that* thing get there? By the time relief workers get to that child, their work will be 98% done. Give her a pink doll to think white is all that's good, beautiful, lovely and superior, then throw in 12 grains of rice and they can just run straight to looting the diamond mines. smh

I don't know. I guess I'm one who doesn't care. I guess I went through the "angry" phase and then I felt "sorry" for these men that they are just so delusional and misguided… but now I just don't even think about Black men who date white/Asian/…(here it's Latina) women exclusively. Their reasons are known to their crazy selves.

Often I see these young, very good-loooking, Black high school basketball star types with a little Puerto Rican or nationality-undetermined type on their arm and I sigh. Or I'll see a Black man pushing a baby carriage and I know good and doggone well aint no Black child in that carriage. A Black man pushing his Black child? *wooooo my sides*

I don't know.

Yeah, we can pull some of Latin men (and some white men, too) but who wants them?

I don't know.

Hello Lauren, I've been a lurker on this site for awhile now but I just wanted to say I appreciate you posting this. I agree w. the 2 sides of the same coin approach you took.

As a black woman too, I admit that I am (still) looking for a brotha. I just graduated from college & where I went to school, not only was there a limited amount of "us", the number of quality brothas was limited as well. Needless to say, I didn't date in undergrad.

I'm attending graduate school next fall & while I am not looking for a man in particular, I think that as black women, we should definitely keep our eyes open to the possibilities. There are indeed men that want us & if not our own men, then we should never stop & believe the subconscious messages placed by the media that we are "less than".

It is refreshing to see your post today.

This is a great catalyst for kicking off the discussion of why some educated (college and/or graduate) black men and women seem to be missing each other when it comes to love, marriage and baby carriage part of life.

I'm going to lay out my opinions and take the brickbats as they come:
black women like Michelle Obama want their equivalent like Barack Obama. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm referring to women who:

1. don't have any children
2. can qualify as white collar professionals
3. accepts and manages adult responsibilities relatively well (i.e. you wouldn't be horrified if this person had a child.)

these women want romantic partners to be a black man who has the same credentials and shares a similar viewpoint on the world.

So…
A blue collar white, black, Asian, Hispanic man ain't gonna do the trick. (Unless he's exceptional.) Or a man with a prison record. Or a man with numerous baby mamas. (If I'm wrong, please correct me.)

They want Barack or his facsimile. Smart, principled, hard-working, ambitious, no children and easy on the eyes. He has his flaws but don't we all?

Now if their desired credentialed mates turns out to prefer any woman but one that's black (or only dates light skinned black women)… well where does that leave the Michelle Obama facsimiles?

Compromising?
Lonely?
Lesbians?

I think it means that they have to seek love outside of their race and class (as much as it pains some to contemplate that possibility) but what choice do you have if the idea of having a well adjusted black/black intimate relationship may not be as important to black men as it is to black women?

I'm not saying this out of malice or anger at the Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryants, Charles Barkleys, Reginald Lewis', Sidney Poitiers, Keenan Ivory Wayans, Taye Diggs, Seals of the world (because love is love) but I am saying that maybe black women who are educated professionals should realize that holding on to the hope that every educated professional black man wants to have a black life partner is futile.

And I'm not saying that means settling. No need to have a physicist dating a high school dropout if they have nothing to common. But if there's a great guy who is interested in you and you have great conversation and chemistry but he resembles Uncle Ruckus more than TJ Holmes…maybe give him a chance?

Consider other dating options and let the black men who have chosen to spread their love and resources elsewhere be your friends…you never know they may eventually set you up with a really good guy.

And I agree with Sam…we are giving men too much credit. They don't get a clue about having someone smart, ambitious, sexy who loves them to pieces to grow old with until 35 or 40, if that.

Okay yell at me.

Funny both articles (from Lauren and Cord) are illustrated with a picture of a Black man and a White woman… guess it's the big issue, even if this article is entitled "Dating in black and white", with no specific gender.

Honestly i love those topics. I feel touched, even if i'm french, because i am a black woman… yet it's getting pretty personnal, maybe a little too personnal ?

I would have love to have datas like : how do those single women live ? Alone ? With friends ?do they plan to reproduce ? How many kids do they have per woman ? If a black woman can't find the perfect match, where can she buy the best sperm ? At Cryo ? lol !

Did you notice that neither Oprah Winfrey (not really single that's true) nor Condolezza Rice have kids ?

Love and social status associated with relationship and marriage are crucial, yet for a community the renewal of the population is as important. No ?

Maybe i should have wrote the article myself… but i could not have done it ! I really appreciate Stereohyped, both concept and content ! Bravo and thank you !

"I think it means that they have to seek love outside of their race and class (as much as it pains some to contemplate that possibility) but what choice do you have if the idea of having a well adjusted black/black intimate relationship may not be as important to black men as it is to black women?…And I’m not saying that means settling…"

I respect and agree with much of what you wrote, Tallulah. However, settling is exactly what you described in this quote. If I am an educated, traveled, upwardly mobile, childless woman, what is wrong with me wanting someone who brings as much as me to the table, if not more? This means that we will have similar interests (more to discuss), similar hobbies (more experiences to share together) and can relate to one another. If that man is what I'm seeking and I end up with a UPS manager, then instead of getting the partner I am hoping for, I'm making do with what's readily available and my second choice.

Now, I'm not saying that a woman with J.D. cannot be equally yoked with a man with a bachelor's. I'm just saying that she may not have as much in common with him as someone similarly situated, and he more than likely was not her first choice.

great post lauren! your topic was very narrow and hardly generalized.

i also agree with #33 filmbuff on most of his points.

i am a woman in professional school and have had a range of dating experiences that taught me a lot. i have dated black men, indian men and african men. i have yet to date a white man, but look forward to it

i have learned that i have certain priorities when i date a man, which are to know:

(i) who is this person i'm dating, what kind of values do they have and do they mesh well with mine?
(ii) what are my standards for this relationship, ex: what lines will i draw up front that will be dealbreakers if crossed ex: dishonesty, guy with bad intentions, kids … and finally
(iii) what are each of our objectives in this relationship ? ex: short term or potential for long term if we're compatible.

i found that by focusing on these aspects that matter to me, i value myself as a woman; giving no man the opportunity to take advantage of me.

i feel too much focus on the race of who you're dating (even if you are a black woman who only dates black men) is such dangerous business, because it can cause you to be distracted by unwarranted stereotypes and mistrust, all the while forgetting your own priorities.

that said, i must admit my biggest disappointment so far with the black professional men i encounter is very clear: the ones who i am attracted to hardly ever like me, and the ones who are attracted to me i hardly ever like!! it's kinda hilarious …

but i feel like those guys and i both have legitimate reasons for not wanting each other (even if it were bc i am black ..but that is not usually the case). So we have to understand that everyone won't be attracted to each other or compatible just bc we're the same race

i am currently in an IR (for almost a year) and am experiencing my happiest relationship ever. to my pleasant surprise, he turned out to be the man i share the most in common with so far.

Great post Lauren.

I'm a black college student, and a bit of a lurker on this site, but I am dating a white woman, so I figured commenting wouldn't be inappropriate.

What I constantly reiterate to my parents and to some of my black friends is that I'm not not attracted to black women. I find good-looking black women as attractive as equivalent white, Latina, Asian, Indian etc. women. Believe me or not, but what I look for in a partner is someone with whom I share interests.

Sometimes (like now for example) it is a white woman. In the past, it has been a hispanic woman, and in the future, it might be a black woman. But for me at least, I'm really not that concerned about a woman's race.

im a "halfbreed." black dad, white mom. my dad was in the military and stationed in germany, where he met my mom. theyre not together any more and hes dated a few other women since, all white. "you like white girls, huh?" - "look around! this is a white country! what are the odds of meeting a black woman here?"

Josh,

Some people value their cultural traditions to the point that they want a mate of the same background. This applies to religion, etc., as well as ethnicity. There are some ethnic groups, which despite living in the U.S., live in close-knit communities and date/marry among themselves. Are you referring to dating white women in Germany?
This situation is global. I studied abroad in Japan and though almost all of the male students who wanted a girfriend found one, regardless of their race, only a few of the female students did, and it wasn't for lack of trying.
It's easy if a you (general, not personal) have privilege in this area as a widely desired person to dismiss the issue.

@Jamelle

I hear where you are coming from, and as a black man I can agree with what you are saying, but I think the statistics paint a different picture. As far as finding black women beautiful, that doesn't really say much. I'm sure 90% of the population, black or white, would say that Naomi Campbell is beautiful; however many of the white men(or black men) who think that would never date a black woman. I think that we just need to be honest about our feelings. If you are a black man who has only dated white women, you can talk all you want about being attracted to the person, but the truth is YOU LIKE WHITE WOMEN. Own it and be prepared to answer the legitimate concerns of frustrated black women. The message black women receive from the mainstream media is that their "blackness" are not beautiful. When you are bombarded with that kind of message one would hope to find validation in their own community; yet increasingly many black men are also sending the message that black is not beautiful. That breeds frustration and resentment. My mother is a half indian half hispanic woman from the West Indies and I grew up in Canada a country where blacks make up 1.5% of the population, but I am more attracted to, and make a conscious effort to date black women. Of course there are beautiful white, asian and latino women out there, but those are not the women I choose to persue. I'm honest about that fact and am prepared to defend/discuss it. It seems that men who feel the opposite are not as open to the dialogue.

Yo, yo, yo Jamaal. Can I holla at you? You got a girl, yo? If you do, that's cool, we can be friends. Or whatever, but yo, for reals, do you maybe got a brother?

@Michelle
LOL I'm single, what's your e-mail address?

Wonderful post Lauren! I myself am attracted to people and I embrace my black community. At the end the day, I would just want someone to love and to be loved by. I think when people say they are not attracted to an ethnic group, I personally believe it is because of their own ignorance of that group or they make a conscious choice of prejudice for whatever silly reason it is..(i.e. hair, eyes, musical taste, educational..etc.) All I ask is that when people make that choice they own up to it.

i really liked Jamaal's post, and am now absolutely giddy at the thought of a Stereohyped hookup.

love it!

@Bari…

and I feel that black women who want their match and can't find it because their match is otherwise engaged still need to ask themselves if they are cool with hoping and waiting while living life to its fullest.

Jamaal, I've only seriously dated white men and that has nothing to do with a lack of attraction to other men. Those are the men who I'm attracted to who are also attracted to me and want to date me. I subtly flirt with pretty much any attractive guy nowadays because I live in Boston and hell, every guy could gawk at you all they want but the chance that they'd date you if you're a black woman is… nearly zero. To be perfectly honest, I don't flirt with most black guys because at this point, I just assume they don't want me. When I smile at or start a conversation with non black men here, it's generally pleasant. I've met loads of friendly people and workout buddies. When I do the same with black men, I get the cold shoulder, like "be gone negress!" All my black male friends are gay, whether they've come to terms with that or not. I'm actually more annoyed if a non-BM(especially Latino or white) doesn't date BW.

Awww @ Jamaal and Michelle.

Michelle, it takes more than love to make a marriage work. That's why so many marriages fail. It has nothing to do with the right or wrong intentions and everything to do with an overly romantic, unrealistic notion of what marriage really is.

Jocelyn, all my dolls in Nigeria were white except for the ones my mom sewed for me. I think the same Chinese companies that make the ones in Wal Mart make those ones.

@ Jamal

"I’m sure 90% of the population, black or white, would say that Naomi Campbell is beautiful; however many of the white men(or black men) who think that would never date a black woman".

I am a white dude from Canada (Québec city…yes i'm a frenchy).

I have to disagree white you on that one. The majority of the white dude i know realy dont give a f*ck what color the girl is. That the biggest misconception about white people, in canada anyway.

Love and reaspect from QC

…to disagree with^^^^

@Kilo
I hear you, and I can't speak for all white men, but being from Canada I can speak from personal experience. While I agree that there are many white men that date black women(I'm attending the wedding of one such couple this year), never once during my high school or college years did I witness a couple like that. In high school especially, the only black girls that I heard white guys talk about were the ones with light skin, straight hair etc. If a sister was dark skinned chances are the white boys were not chasing after her, again only my observation but I think a poll of black Canadian women would prove me right. I can't see what's in a persons heart but I can see their actions. When daria says she flirts with men of all races, I think, there is a woman looking for love no matter the colour. When I hear a man of any race say that a woman's colour does not matter, but the same man only flirts with white women and only dates white women I would say his actions betray his true thoughts. Those are the men I was talking about. I don't doubt that there are many black men out there who simply haven't met the right black girl. Unfortunately there is also a growing group of black men that sight personality incompatibility, sassiness, or a gold digging mentality as reasons why they don't date black women. I know men like that and trust me, they wouldn't date a black woman even if she had none of those qualities these men claim turn them off. I want those men to speak up so black women can avoid them like the plague. But you're from QC, maybe the francophone men are more enlightened then we english speakers that grew up in Toronto.
Big up all Canada massive.

wow…where to dig in.. well, i grew up in an ohio suberb and attended a white elementary school. i didnt get a crack at black boys until middle school and from there, I was so excited to finally be around more than say the same 2 I had known all my life, it was pretty overwhelming. high school and college were fun and more of the same, testing out how more "adult" relationships felt; going through the same dramas and high/lows as everyone else im sure. ALTHOUGH it must be pointed out that there was only ONE black basketball player at college (OSU) that I knew of that had a black girlfriend and seemingly rock solid for a couple years, they broke up. He then dated…. yeah, you guessed it. And no one (hardly any of my (black) friends or even any I heard about) got within an inch of the football players. We more or less chalked that up to them being "how they were" and left it at that. Then I moved to New York City, and yeah the differences can be stark. You hear the same stereotypes and generalizations from both sides, "black women want thugs/money/cars.." and that "black men are hos/want white girls/ or "others"–what does Kanye say? mutts?"
I've had the How Do We Keep Missing Each Other conversation with many a black male since we each complain of being miscategorized.
Wearing my hair natural seemed to really draw a line in the sand. The street chatter decreased by say, half!! or at least was of a different ilk than what I'd heard since about 14/15 yrs of age or so.
Anyway–I am going somewhere with all this,stick with me.
Working in fashion here in nyc, the bastion of "white beauty", i am constantly, constantly, i said CONSTANTLY confronted with the fact that WE are not the ideal and should "do something" about whatever isnt fitting. on the other hand, we're celebrated for our exoticism.. if one more French hairstlyists grabs my fro by the fistfulls–upon introduction mind you!!!!!! (oh i luve eeeeet!) im gonna get sent home. it seems to be the long fake nails, hair show weave-dos, gum crakcing variety that has everyone all riled up? I dont have/do any of those things so i guess i fly under the radar.
one guy i used to date said i was the best of both worlds because I acted like a white girl but had a black girl booty. Meant this as a compliment he did.. we didnt date long.
I was for the past couple of years, keeping the company of 2 different guys lets just say b/c im grown and have needs but i knew these relationships werent going anywhere. they were black and seemed to regard me as a novelty with my weird eating habits (organic produce, grass fed beef, etc..) music choices, hair, clothes (didnt know you could dress white!), and on and on…
I was getting worried… approaching 30 and no real prospects on the horizon. told my parents my dog may be my only contribution to the grandkid pot and just lived life. BUT–I met my boyfriend who is almost 10 yrs older and only been in the country 2 yrs. He has TOTALLY different notions of beauty, family values, and basic human decency than most of the guys Ive dated heretofore.
so ive begun to argue that dating non-Americans is the key! i KNOW that that in itself is a great generalization but I can only say what has worked for me. I just couldnt get serious with someone who cant express his thoughts without quoting Lil Wayne or Jay Z. My man prizes family and we share core values and have serious plans for our future. so ladies wade further out into the dating pool. honestly, black women are the most "race loyal" in this way. i get it, i felt the same way for the longest. my boyfriends black (carribean-and i know they carry their own host of stereotypes) but the cultural differences really shine through. He loves my old fashioned ways mixed with liberal convictions, my afroed hair that is sometimes purple, and most of all just loves ME and that's all we're all after in the end.

TD LOL you're on to something…I escaped this fiasco the same way..by choosing a beautiful black man from another country where white is NOT the ideal. I wish I had better news for my younger sisters but I don't. There's should be and is…and the gap in between.

I am a black woman and I am not attracted to thugs. I have a college degree and I am about to start grad school and maybe move further. The first guy I dated was biracial(black and white). I am not into white men. I want to date a black man. I do not want to get stared at when I go out. I go through enough racism to have to deal with more. I will marry a black man one day. Not all are into white girls.

I agree with Jamaal, I guess we've had the same experiences in Toronto. I work in a mostly White office setting and a Black man I work with has told me about many of the White men telling him their attracted to me, however, would never ask out a Black women based on that attitude stereotype and fear of family reactions.

"by choosing a beautiful black man from another country where white is NOT the ideal."

Isn't this sort of bashing black American men? Aren't American born black women also from a country where white is the ideal? So black women are just too advanced to bother with black men. I will say that I have an older brother-educated, stable, an attorney who really wants to be with a black woman and have a family and be married and he gets the standard shit from them and is on the verge of just giving up. He's creative, funny, thoughtful, all that jazz, but he's just unlucky with black women to the point that I have suggested considering white or Latina women.

I think there is a lot of hurt on all sides and black women writing off black men in disgust and vice versa just exacerbates the situation. Why is it that we seem like the most fucked up people on earth?

Charles,
I bet your brother is a catch. Perhaps he should run in deeper circles where a woman will appreciate someone such as himself.

If he is looking for a dime, the odds that she's shallow are higher than a regular to slightly-above-average looking woman. What is the standard s***? Are these women looking for Mr Perfect and ignoring a potential Mr. Right? Is he living in a major city where too many women have Sex and the City-type fantasies of marrying their own Mr. Big? Did your brother wait until he was past 35 to start thinking about settling down, but the women he's interested are much younger and still in a party stage? The women around 35 are likely to be adjusted to single life. I hope your brother treats all women with the same level of respect, because some men do not.

We (as apeople) do need to get it together. I do not see other ethnic groups in the US knocking their women in pop culture in the same way as radio hip hop.

@Charles

I couldn't agree with you more brother. Writing each other off is not the answer. I think we've all had bad experiences dating, but the thoughtful comments posted here only prove that there are many enlightened brothers and sisters out there looking for love. Stay strong people.

Hey Jamaal…..I would love to give you my email, but not really trying to make it public for millions to see. A girl's gotta have some secrets, eh?

But seriously, we are a messed up people. And my gut tells me that it could be worse. Given all that we have been through, it is a wonder we are where are. And yes, we are horribly dysfunctional when it comes to trying for that "White picket fence" dream life, but the desire for it is half the battle. The rest is just working out a few details.

@ Charles…

I was just presenting an option to the numerous women who have vocalized their frustrations. I look around and see my girlfriends and my cousins girlfriends who are about 5-8 yrs older and are unmarried, unattached, and unhappy. its not because they're all assholes ya know? people are frustrated. there is unrest! people are looking for answers so Im just saying what worked for me. And "worked" for me isnt even accurate. My story is just what naturally happened to me when i least expected it. Just like they always say.
So i didnt stamp my foot and declare i was abandoning my statesmen, that's just what happened to happen. Just tellin my story…

Some of the disconnect between black females and black males has to do with the shift of gender roles in relative recent history combined with the psychological effects left over from the era of overt white supremacy.

It is understood that some black women have deeply engrained insecurity issues as a result of the standards of beauty that pervade our society. I think it is also important to note that some black men have insecurity issues about their manhood. Emasculating the black male identity was an essential part of white supremacy. A modern day version of this can be taken from the movie Crash when the officer put his hands all over Terrence Howard's wife. It is common knowledge that to adapt in Corporate America black males often times have to mitigate their assertiveness or be deemed too aggressive.

Now black women always had to work due to the majority of black males in ability to earn a good enough living to support a family as a result of institutionalized discrimination. After the crack epidemic and the increased incarceration rates fractured the black family, black women became the primary breadwinners. This also created a fierce independent identity in the black female community, which was necessary. (It is worth noting that the notion of being independent can at times be counter intuitive to being involved in a relationship, which by definition is grounded in codependency and compromise.)

Black females, to their credit, increasingly sought higher education and assimilation into the corporate culture. This created a greater disparity between the gender roles that typically dominated American culture and the gender roles that were being seen in the black community. Unfortunately, on the other hand many black males viewed such assimilation into corporate culture as emasculating to their manhood. This is one of the appeals of the street culture ethos that you make it on your own terms.

The ideology of having a professionally equal mate is relatively a new one across all races and it remains to be seen if it will be an effective ideology for the majority of people. There is something to be said about people complimenting each other. This notion is uncharted territory that our society is still trying to navigate through. The gender roles are changing rapidly and a period of adjustment is expected. You see this in other ethnic groups as well. However, the difficulty of this period of adjustment is exacerbated by the engrained securities on both sides of the black male and female conscience. Gender roles are deeply entrenched into our subconscious since the dawn of civilization. It is an oversimplification for black women to say that black males can't handle a "strong black women". Truth be told black women may not be able to handle a strong black man and vice versa depending on what your definition of strength is. I for one always thought the older generation of black women to be very strong despite their lack of professional accomplishment.

Every one loves the relationship that Barack and Michelle have, myself included. However, how many women take notice of the sacrifice that Michelle made to leave her firm, for Barack, where she was earning more then Barack at the time. I'm not implying that women always have to make the sacrifice but the willingness to make a sacrifice has to be there if two professionals are going to make it. My experience has been that there isa reluctance on both sides to do so. Disclaimer: THIS IS NOT THE WHOLE REASON FOR THE RELATIONSHIP ISSUES IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. IT IS JUST A THOUGHT THAT I FELT WAS MISSING FROM THE CONVERSATION

PS: Dam that’s long my shorty always said I was head beater. Shout out to black male perspective. 1!

@ Jocelyn
"yeah, we can pull some of latin men ( and some white men too), but who wants them?

that's the reason there are zillions of unmarried black women! who the hell are black men? yeah what about them so much that you so desperately want even if they are not on your level(education, financial, emotional), don't give a crap about you, and disrespect you?

that's why Sam jenkins said you people want only thugs, and that's true for ghetto BW,including the ones that have college degrees.

if you people want to stop being statistics you need to get out of that mind set, because BM aren't going to stop dating non-blk women. stand up for yourself, stop limiting yourselves, if white, latino, asian men are interested in you, don't brush them off, talk to them. they may just be the one that God has for you, and so much better that the so-called "prefect brotha" you're endlessly waiting for.

and another thing, STOP DWELLING AND LOSING SLEEP OVER BLACK MEN/NON-BLACK WOMEN RELATIONSHIPS, IT'S DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR OWN HAPPINESS!

I've never had a relationship with an African-American man and that hasn't been because I haven't found any that I wanted. They don't want me, so I do kinda see why some black women would prefer a non-American black. I am a 1st generation American. For the most part, a lot of the men in my groups, especially those in my family, LOOOOOVE black women. I don't want someone who feels like I'm the consolation prize or like they're doing me (or the black race) a favor by being with me. If you love white women, you need to be with one because other women don't deserve all the f—ery that comes with being with someone who'd rather not be with you.

At a certain appoint, I was against chocoholics (non-black men who love black women) because of the fear of being a fetish. At this point, I don't really care. There are plenty of non-black men who will sleep with a black women. Chocoholics have relationships with black women. I had a relationship with one and really, I've never felt more beautiful or adored in my life. Then I moved. He kinda ruined it for other men.

If you're seriously worried about people looking at you while you walk down the street, you shouldn't be in an interracial relationship. Otherwise, keep your options open. Either way, you need to realize that as much as it hurts your ego, you don't have dibs on black men.

Sci,

Thank you. I was thinking about this issue. Both black men and women have wounds.

Oh Sci, your comment is Killing Me! And to think, I thought we could finally have a conversation about relationships without dragging quirky barbershop rhetoric into it. Oh well, maybe next time! I'm just glad no one's mentioned the Willy Lynch letters yet!

Oops I think I just did!

Seriously, why not join the ship-jump? I only date white guys (mainly for geographic reasons), and I have friends who are happy with the same.

It seems like every white guy I meet (and the one I married, and the 4 to whom I was affianced), is dying to date outside his race, witness the aforementioned white/asian dating 'pattern'.

Michelle and Jamal why not email your comments to Lauren or the webmaster and they can hook y'all up?
ok wonderfully put Lauren, to Charles, I would love to meet your brother, I'm an attorney as well, and yes its hard when you got four degrees finding someone on your level. But its more than just the higher ed piece, its the appreciation of the arts, social affiliations (oo-oop!), HBCU or not, but understanding the value, political opinions, family, extended family, rural vs. urban, etc. I am almost 50, look 30, and totally felt like Lauren. I have professional girlfriends who are Veterinarians-Tuskegee grads, who have NEVER married and are my age. Some have tried IR, but in our generation we were raised to find men like our Fathers. My own Father told me when I had my first (white) boyfriend in HS, that when the deal comes down, they will not protect you, they will look after their own and their own interests. Whether or not that is true (sometimes it has been), it reinforced my want and need (yes need) to be with a Black man. I wanted someone whom I didn't have to explain why I went to an HBCU, why we go to Sorority Balls every year with my parents, why Jack and Jill is necessary when your kids are one of five Black kids in their entire GRADE!, why its good I am in the Junior League representin, who can credibly debate Hillary vs. Obama, who wants to be like Michelle and Barack, who knows what the hell Kwanzaa is and why it was created and wants to go to the celebration at the community center/church, who doesn't have issues going to a "loud" Black church and my singing gospel in the choir while listening to Amy Grant on the way home. Who will go the Kennedy Center and eat at the Florida Avenue Grill. Sam, I and my friends never wanted a Thug. I cannot bring a Thug home to my parents. My father would take a Thug into the basement and keep him there for 10 hours and then buy him a new suit at Macy's and then my Mother would correct his diction, if he could not correct it himself. I need a man who understands code switching between standard English and Ebonics, who understands the meaningful look in a sea of whiteness, who respects those men like my Father who served in WWII, Korea before they could legally vote and in Vietnam and came home altered as much by war as by racism. Someone who understands why my parents cried when Vanessa Williams won the Miss America pagent, because it meant that America said we were beautiful (yes she's light with grey eyes, but she's still Black), who are staying alive to be able to vote for Barack Obama, who want to live long enough to see a Black man be President. Someone who understands why everywhere I represent myself, my family and my people.

I'm not so sure if I IR that I will meet that person who understands all of that. My ex-husband was Black and Japanese. Kinda like Tiger but Black identified, but even he didn't get the sense of community until he married me. I have dated IR and been told, that I cannot meet the parents because they are racist. So much for love! I have dated maybe one Latino and am never approached by many despite being in the DC area. Here IR exists, but the Asian, Indian and Hispanic communities are still not crossing over much. If there is IR it is white/black. But yes, its hurts, I hurt for my girlfriends who are now past childbearing age, still hoping to find Mr. Right Black man. How much does it hurt to live half a century and feel rejected by your own? I also am a bellydancer, so yes, I have the hair, weaves, wigs and Halle Berry looks (I'm medium light as well as-thin lips, narrow nose-body is thicker tho) so, I get the shallow brothers wantin sex as well, its just that I hold out for the intellectual brother since that is much more sexy to me than ripped abs. I'll take a nerd anyday-I can bring him home.

Interracial couples breakdown in Canada.

1. Both spouses belong to the same visible minority group
2. One spouse is not a visible minority
3. Both spouses are visible minorities, but belong to different groups
Total 1 2 3
Chinese (321,720) 265,760 41,770 14,195
South Asian (327,170) 285,670 28,990 12,510
Black (136,020) 80,805 47,105 8,115
Filipino (107,400) 71,835 25,475 10,090
Latin American (85,160) 45,130 34,960 5,070
South East Asian (58,130) 40,055 9,845 8,235
Arab/West Asian (105,720) 79,235 20,925 5,555
Korean (34,800) 28,015 4,685 2,105
Japanese (29,700) 7,500 18,620 3,575
Other (50,400) 20,955 15,195 14,245

Note: Numbers may not add up to total due to rounding.

SOURCE: STATISTICS CANADA

I've been struggling to write an article like this the past year but there are so many stereotypes to black people in IR unions that I would never stop typing.

Next time, can you address the black woman who obsesses too much about black men to the point where she resents them and posts negativity about them. These sites are all over the blogosphere and as someone who has previously dated interracially, I find them highly offensively. Just as you said, folks look for commonalities when it comes to dating, not race. But, many black women out here seem to have been drinking too much of that man-hating Kool-Aid and just spew madness everyone.
And its unfair because what about us normal women who just met a person and fell in love? Are we doomed to forever explaining our choice to put our hearts first? What about always been the epitome of scrutiny and disdain from our community and others?
hairsmystory.com

I've dated any variety of people, from many different backgrounds. When it comes down to it, what matters is how you connect emotionally and romantically with another individual. Race is incidental.

Personally, I wouldn't date anyone that chose me because I'm white. I think that fetishising someone for their race is just another form of racism. It doesn't allow you to see the person at all– just the 'thing' that you perceive them to be.

As a white woman going through a phase of black male attraction, I won't act on it because I know the attraction isn't honorable …keep reading, second paragragh explains. I am attracted to the physical beauty of black men and exploration, but wouldn't want a long-term relationship with a black man because successful relationships are hard enough without going against a society that (other than other black guys) generally has a problem with black men and white women.

I do think television, especially sports, currently portrays black men as the masculine ideal. I don't watch tv other than college sports, so it's the young, cut black guys I'm attracted to. But as a 40ish white woman (still very attractive so I'm told by white men and gather from looks and the occasional comments from black men, finacially secure, well-educated woman), I'm not an easy slut and would never treat any man as a boy toy which is what I'd like a young black man for. All people deserve more honor than that.

i have tried my hardest to be attracted to black women. lord knows i tried. i remember black girls would tease me when i was a kid because i was too dark. sounds silly now but i never got over it. black girls thought i was ugly because i was too dark, so i stopped looking at them completely. off course everything change as i got older. black women started looking at me all of a sudden, but it was too late. i don't know how to go back to being with black women. i don't even know how to talk to them. i see them on campus looking good,but even when i am attracted them physically, i can't see myself with them. i have never even kissed one before. how the hell do i stop this madness? its pissing me off. i want some black babies i have to change this.

hook me up then with a white woman in nairobi.Am a 21 year old guy then i'll have alot to say.My email is glibzgp@gmail.com

TD writes:

>>>"ALTHOUGH it must be pointed out that there was only ONE black basketball player at college (OSU) that I knew of that had a black girlfriend and seemingly rock solid for a couple years, they broke up. He then dated…. yeah, you guessed it. And no one (hardly any of my (black) friends or even any I heard about) got within an inch of the football players. We more or less chalked that up to them being “how they were” and left it at that."

Now, I'm not downing you…not at all, because I liked most of what you had to say, but this paragraph intrigued me. Ohio State is a HUGE campus, with about what, 40,000+ undergrads? I don't know, but if you're telling me that the ONLY "desirable" black guys on campus were ballers, then I think nearly every conscious black man posting on this board is shaking their heads like me over this.

Ladies, don't get me wrong. I know you're up against a whole lot of frustrating BS that's been going on for centuries. But as much as we like to blame the media for the 'white beauty myth" casting negative aspersions on black women, we shouldn't ignore the "black macho myth"–that the only "desirable" black men are athletes or entertainers…that black male sexuality solely revolves around the worst anti-social and thug imagery. Who can be the "hardest?" The most ruthless and unfeeling?

I don't blame a young black woman for falling into that thought process, when for years on in she's been bombarded with these images. Young white women go through this as well, but there's a bigger safety net for them as they get older. When most white women hit 30, the ones who are done with the "bad boys" that is, and want to start a family, they can usually fall back on the average looking, short, balding or pudgy "nice guys" that they used to reject. There is no shortage of these guys around, and they kind of like the deal, too.

Black women on the other hand, don't have that big a pool to draw from, and if they've still bought into the "black machismo" thing, average looking, short, balding (not to be confused with purposefully shaved) or pudgy "nice guys" still won't sexually excite them, and—

–those average black men KNOW it. That's why many of them went different directions during their 20's.

need no 75 iam an african(kenyan)date me more in ma mail

Well, I'm not all that sure about who's easier to get in bed and all. But, I will add as a SWM living in Central America, there are many white men who prefer to date black women exclusively(professionals and easy types, lol).. It may not be of common practice so much within the u.s.a. but if you spend a little quality time exploring the world you find its not about b/w, its about what individuals find sexy in a partner.. I dont have a reason for my attraction to black women other than that, its always been there and whats the point in explaining it? Just experience it, right? Hence, to the lovely ladies that cant seem to find the right black man, remember not to rule out the possibility of interracial for yourself if its of interest.

Toby