it's important to me, although it is less stigmatizing than it was in the past. what's different now is that men don't feel compelled to marry a woman if he impregnated her. also laws have changed. kids are now considered legitimate if the parents become married at any point.

It is important though not vital. You shouldn’t marry the guy who knocked you up at some party while you were both 17 and slightly intoxicated. That’s not doing your kid any favor. I am 110% opposed to cohabitation before marriage for myself. What does playing house mean for your relationship? You’ll probably remain the girlfriend. What works for Brangelina and Goldie Hawn will probably not work for most. All these people are rich first of all so they don’t need the tax benefits and I’m sure they want lawyer-free break-ups should that happen. If I were twice divorced, in my early 30s and filthy f-ing rich, I too would probably be opposed to marriage. There’s no way I would currently have a kid with someone I’m not married too. I respect parenting and marriage, and appreciate the need for two full-time parents + village to raise a kid. I can’t understand women who actually choose and plan to have children with Some Dude. That is probably the most masochistic thing ever. Single parenting is no joke. I tip my hats to the women who are doing it and doing it well for whatever reason, but that is not something I would ever choose for myself or anyone but young women my age are doing just that.

Suggestion for next Thread Bare: List what’s great about being a black woman.

I was at the gym today and saw this in Latina magazine (with “Latina,” not “black woman”) and I loved it. A fewof the things were a bit absurd but yeah, I guess Sophia Veggara’s sexy car commercial goes on the plus column.

I'ma be blunt and hood on this here post.

Black women should stop allowing themselves to be breading machines for men who do not love them. I'm not saying to wait for marriage, if that is not something you want to do, but you should protect yourself. There is no way that any woman who engages in 1night stands should find herself pregnant.

Sorry to say this, as I am not normally a judgmental person but women who have babies with 1 nighters are idiots.

All of the b.control options we have in this country and you allowed yourself to get knocked up from a 1nightter. Why do women have 1nighters anyway? The guy you leaving the club with could be a serial killer or rapist for all you know.

I think part of the reason a lot of black men have no respect for black women is because many of them were raised without fathers. In turn they believe it's okay to pull the okie doke on BW since will go for that(in large number). Many also blame there mothers for not having a father around. I also noticed that many single black mothers seem to be very stressed and maybe that is why some of them talk down to and scream at their children in public. I heard women say all types of nasty things, I even heard one girl tell her child that she hates her, I almost wiped her as* on the spot for that too.

Furthermore, a woman who looks to having a child by herself is selfish. Why not wait, find someone of good character, and have a child in a healthy atmosphere.

Of course, there are exceptions like if your spouse is on drugs or abusive, but we know that many women are just allowing themselves to get knocked up.

Lesson here ladies: Until you have the ring, two forms of birth control

If you don't want to get married there is always adoption.

I too have issues with people choosing to bring kids into a cruel world without the tools to make it easier on them, but I'm not going to blame black women over black men or vice versa. Everybody needs to practice safe sex and love themselves enough to know that a child is not always the answer and maybe an abortion isn't the evil terrible mortal sin people make it out to be. Worse, in my opinion, is hating your kid for ruining your youth or relationship, or for not being the cure-all for your depression or self-hatred. Especially because those kids grow up hating themselves, surprise surprise, and so on and so on until we're all screwed.

To me, married or single, people tend to have kids for the wrong reasons — vanity, desperation, fear of being alone, etc. It's not for me to decide what the right scenario is for someone else, because what matters most is having enough sense and resources to know that a kid is not an accessory and needs stability and compassion in order to not be a sociopath. One person can pull that off just as well as - and sometimes better than - two people can.

What is sad, though, is that black kids don't get many chances to see men and women treat each other with love and kindness and respect in the wider culture, which is only going to exacerbate whatever issues their home environments might leave them with.

But, hey, I don't want to birth anyone's baby. I'd much rather adopt. There are too many unwanted black children out there for me to need to repopulate the world with my crazy family's DNA.

Remember in school when someone would start some trouble with you and you would get in trouble? And you thought how unfair that was.

The issue of non-marriage amongst African Americans reminds me of that scenario in this way; American has done everything in its power to destroy the Black family since America's inception. First it was illegal for African Americans to marry. Then when Black families somehow managed to form under those conditions, children and spouses were sold away from each other never to be seen or heard from again.

Fast forward to the late 60's when in order to qualify for public assistance it was a requirement that there be no man in the household;

Then take a look at the media and its constant portrayals of broken Black families. We see it in magazines on television and in film. The media is a negative influence.

And let's not forget to mention all of the so-called Black celebs that have children out of wedlock, Halle Berry, LeBron James, just to name two. That influences people, and if you think what celebs do does not influence people; then why are they paid millions of dollars to endorse products.

I understand that African Americans have free will like everyone else but what other group has had their family structure under assault for 400 years?

I agree that marriage is important for many reasons, for children, for economic reasons and even for health reasons. But let's allow this country and it's hatred of Black families take part of the blame otherwise we are letting those who started the trouble off and blaming the victim. And just like in school that isn't fair.

I'd be hypocritical if I said I that it was absolutely necessary and husband and I literally did everything in reverse order, but I can honestly say that we'd already begun discussing marriage when I got pregnant with number 1 so rather than marriage house kid, we did kid, house, marriage and had I not been fully confident that if for some reason WE didn't work out, he'd still be a fully participatory DAD - I'd have had an extremely difficult decision to make. That said I DO think that a good marriage teaches children so very much about what love looks like, how to treat a partner and what their expectations should be for how they are treated in relationships. That is why I also believe that if the parents are miserable, they should separate. Not that I think divorce should merely be an option as opposed to a last resort, but you also don't want to teach your kids that marriage equals misery…..

Monie I hear what you are saying and you certainly make since but most of us have grand parents who were married. I also came across some numbers saying that 90% of all black children came from two parent households in 1920. We have truly droped the ball when it comes to our children.

Chic Noir,

I agree we have dropped the ball. I just think in order to find a solution we have to understand the forces that are working against us.

We have to embrace single mothers rather than criticize them, otherwise they will tune the message out and their children will be more likely to repeat their parents mistakes.

We also need our own media. How many intact Black families do we see in the media; almost none.

So I agree with you that Black women have to make better choices but they have been helped along to make those choices by outside forces.

I agree 100% Chic Noir. It's easy to point out the constant wrong but we need to start creating some solutions to the problem…

Opps! i meant, I agree Monie! my bad

Obviously, if two people are in a committed solid relationship (not necessarily marriage–not trying to exclude my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters) and are financially and emotionally at a place in their lives when they are ready to take care of a child, that is the optimal situation for a child to be born into. I don't care if it's a man and a woman, two men, two women, whatever–I'm just for two parent homes.
I do agree that with all the options out there for birth control, having a baby by accident when you aren't ready is kind of…stupid. If you are using condoms, regularly and properly, it's really to not get pregnant. Hell, talk to a couple who's TRYING to get pregnant and you'll find out how difficult it is. I know it only takes one time, but usually you have to be engaging in risky behavior pretty consistently to find yourself in this kind of situation.

For me, there's no other option but marriage and I'm a child of divorced parents. I simply don't find it desirable to raise a child alone and I'd want my kids to have an idea of what marriage is about.

Unfortunately, there's a population of sistas with loser mentalities that don't believe that marriage is attainable due to their lack of trust for men. They also don't believe that fathers are all that important. Me and my friend can never have a healthy discussion about family planning cuz she's always challenging my views and it's really annoying.

I really don't understand the number of women who hate birth control or act as though they're allergic to it. Like what's up with that? Making children with low lives again and again and taking it out on your children. C'mon now. That's nonsense.

Yes!!! I've been waiting for somebody to strike up this conversation. I believe that it is EXTREMELY important for people to be MARRIED while attempting to have kids. As a matter of fact, in the Black community it has become detrimental at this point. I know marriage isn't the end all, be all & won't solve all the various problems facing the Black community but DARN IT, its a start. I am a 23 year old, single, Black female with NO KIDS and I can't tell yall how many associates, friends, relatives, etc that I know that have had one or more kids and are not married & it has come to the point where it is acceptable in our community. Matter of fact, being married is so RARE now that when I went to a baby shower last weekend my mother was SHOCKED that the girl was married. Now, I understand that mistakes happen but some folks acting like birth control and condoms were never invented. And as a woman, I would NOT have and have tried my darndest to stay pregnancy free with a ring on my finger. That's just my view on things….

Correction: I meant WITHOUT a ring on my finger…mybad

Ok, so what about the fact that, for straight black women, WANTING to get married does not guarantee that it will happen? What then? No kids for the singletons?

The picture above is interesting, mostly because it's a rare sight, at least from where I sit — two similarly-toned black people? Getting married? Does that even happen anymore?

ronnidobbs- Then the question becomes why are so many single black women not getting married.
It's not impossible for us to get married, and their are plenty of black children waiting to be adopted.

As the mother of two sons, I think marriage is extremely important as it relates to having children. I will begin by saying that there are many examples of excellent single mothers and fathers out there. I was raised by a single mom.

However, as a parent, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for having both parents in the household. There are lessons that only a man can teach both a son and his daughter. There are things that a mom will bring to both boys and girls as well. There is nothing like learning what a healthy, loving relationship looks like firsthand from seeing it everyday.

I won't even get into the support system that two parents give each other. The help, both financially and emotionally. For me, those lessons are invaluable to my kids.

I think that the majority of what ails us in the black community stems from the breakdown of the family unit. Where are the strong black fathers? The nurturing mothers? Sitting down at the dinner table as a family?

Just because being a single parent can be done, and yes….done well, doesn't make it the best or right option.

Black families, although historically assaulted by policies, do not exist in a vacuum. Two parent households, in general, are on the decline in the US. Is what is happening to our community somehow a reflection of a larger societal problem?

And yes, I do get a slight skip in my step when I see a black family headed by a married couple! I hope one day to create a happy and healthy one of my own.

@ ronniedobbs,
Black women have a better chance at marriage as we get older. Don't let those depressing stats tell you otherwise. Stats may say that most of us are single and that many of us have never been married but the aforementioned stat is conveniently left out. And non-Black women are in the same boat.

That's why I hate stats regarding people of color. It suggests that we're doomed.

And adoption was already suggested. I'd rather adopt then hit up a sperm bank and make a question mark baby.

I wanted to respond to some of the poster's comments about men without fathers who in turn don't take care of their children. I know two men that were raised in a two parent household who don't take care of their children. I really am tired of hearing the excuse that because the father was not around it is an excuse that the men neglect their own children. My parents separated when I was two years old. My father always came to visit my sister and I everyday. I feel that black men need to take more accountablility of their own actions and stop with the blame game.
Why is it that a man will have a child with a woman but when you talk about marrying her they say that she is not the one for him. I don't understand that. You will have a connection with the mother for the rest of your child's life but to marry the woman that brought your child into life you can't marry her? I have heard that from ALOT of men. That is some ass backward thinking. My cousin has dated his girlfriend for 7 years. Their child is 4 years old. However, he made her wait a year just to propose to her. How he is making her wait 2 years just to marry her. If black men are like that (and I know alot are not I just haven't come across any) then I will be single for the rest of my life. I feel that black men make women go through some real bullshit! You all are just not worth it to me.

I think black men are allergic to marriage……. it makes them itch.

I believe it is important for a black woman to be married before having children because it affords the security of true familial structure. I understand some naysayers might contend that marriage isn't always permanent but I'm not going to be pessimistic. It's bad enough that the statistics say many black women will never marry, but we sure will have children.

I believe we should stop setting the bar low and just striving for "just enough to get by." Black women, we deserve it.

I personally would like to be married before I have children, but I wont lie I'm 28 and if marriage does not happen soon I may consider having children on my own. My parents were married and my father was great up until I was about 6 years old. Then he became a serious alcoholic, I use to wish my parents divorced. My point is you can't predict what will happen in the future sometimes we just have to go by faith. Because husband or not you may still end up raising children alone.

My parents have been married for 35 years. My aunts and uncles have been married 40-50 years. My grandparents were married 60+ years. Those are very strong examples. I saw my parents use teamwork everyday. Yes there were struggles, but nothing that was going make them walk out the door. They had respect for their marriage, their home, and their family. I can't imagine my childhood if I hadn't had my dad there to correct and guide me. Or my mom not being there making sure I had a hot breakfast in the mornings. They wouldn't have been able to be the best parents they could be without each other. Marriage demonstrates that commitment. Yes, I'm bragging on them because someone needs to brag about that. As much as we rag on Jet, it's nice to see that they still cover our weddings. And there is always the little pic with some smiling older folks celebrating their 60th anniversary. To me, that's a beautiful thing. I'm holding off children 'til I get my photo op in Jet, lol!

Hmmm, I thought this thread was about marriage, not kids…

Apparently I am alone here but I don't believe the institution of marriage is important at all. I also don't hold any religious affiliations that morally obligate me to get married so that is a factor as well. I think people very often assume that monogamy, stability and respect can't exist outside of the confines of marriage and I don't share that view. I should probably also state that my parents have been married for 30+ years now and I have factored that information into my views.

The tax benefits are nice but I don't feel it's fair for our government to lure people into a marriage situation just to save money. Especially when you consider the opportunity to marry is not open to all citizens. It's really unfair that if your relationship is not recognized by the government and you are not allowed to marry that you are barred from receiving any of the privileges that married couples receive. I am very pro-civil unions as this would allow anyone who wishes to partake in benefits reserved for married couples to do so without forcing those who do not wish to do so to marry. I think all individuals should have the opportunity to build wealth and have their rights protected equally under the law.

Personally, I see marriage as a controlling institution used by our government to dictate what is and is not acceptable in private life (I also view government sanctioned religious expression in the same way). The government should have no say in who I choose to share my life and build a family with.

As far as marriage being important to the black community I would again say that it is unnecessary. You don't have to be married to be a caring partner, a good parent to your child, or a positively contributing member of society. I know plenty of married people who don't fit any of those descriptions and they are living proof of this. I think the most beneficial and uplifting things to/for the black community are education, knowledge of yourself and history, critical thinking skills, a deep understanding of the many systems operating in our global society, where you fit in and how you can best affect change. I don't feel that any of these things are inextricably linked to marriage. In my opinion one of the largest problems facing the African American community (and other marginalized communities in this country) is the dominance of the heteropatriarchal power structure. How can we expect to interrupt a system that does not fully recognize or respect us and affect change while simultaneously mimicking said system?

As a product of a couple married for 31 years, I think it is VERY important. Being 30, I get tired of being asked why I do not have kids. I always respond, I'm waiting for marriage. Most of the time I get looks, like I'm an idiot. But I know the importance of having two parents in the home. If I step on someone shoes, I'm sorry. But when you grow up in a LOVING home with both parents, you have a different way of looking at the world, feeling about yourself, and relationships with other. Most of which are all positive. I can count on one hand the number of childhood friends I grew up with that had a loving, father that cared for them totally and completly. I would get questions from those who didn't have fathers in their lives that went like. Your father lives with you? Is he your real daddy? How long have your mother and father been together? Does he have any other kids, with other women? There was such a desire from them to know what it felt like to have a father in the home that loved them. Looking back on it, I realize now sad it was. I don't think folks really know what they do to their kids. Again, it is so important.

Being black it is automatically assumed that they are illegitimate so yeah marriage is important. In the end the child suffers the trials of being illegitimate no matter what crowd they are in.

My parents are legally seperated but they were married before my conception.

You know – once again, many of you fail to figure the context factor. I think I’m the first single parent to weigh in on this issue – and I just want to say love, relationships, dealing with another human being is not just black/white. People change, circumstances change and in the end you have to do what’s right and what you can live with. For me, what was right was to move on from the relationship I was in and welcome my beautiful daughter into this world with or without her father.

I think I am in a little bit different situation than some of the single mother examples presented here. In the same year that I had my little one, I bought a home and successfully negotiated more flexibility in my schedule so that I could spend more time with my daughter. And while it has been an adjustment and I do have frustrations, I haven’t experienced more stress in my life in terms of parenting and providing than has been experienced by my married friends who are parents.

I think what makes someone a good parent is commitment, means and maturity. I can recognize while many hold marriage as an important factor for raising children because it is an institutionally recognized embodiment of commitment, which is closely tied to maturity. But parents can be committed to their children even if they aren’t married to one another. And means really is a relative term to the situation.

So, while I’m not making a bid that being a single parent is better than being a married parent, I urge you to consider context when you make your blanket statements. Not all single parents are struggling and not all married households are pillars are commitment, love and maturity (even if one of the partners is not an alcoholic or on drugs). And furthermore, there are just as many valuable characteristics and lessons that children can pick up in a single parent home as with a two-parent home.

Hopefully later on today I’ll get to touch on marriage per the black community –because that is a whole different issue onto itself.

Swwet Diva - I have a lot of problems with Jet Mag but I too love that they spotlight just married couples.

If anyone is emulating Lebron, Halle in the baby having department without emulating them in the money making department, getting married is the least of their problems!

Although I don't want to force my values on anyone, I think its worthwhile for black people to consider marriage, relationship commitment, parenting values before even consider sexual relationships with each other.

Sometimes I think people don't even consider courting and being extremely selective about sexual partners an option.

Some of the comments are totally right and make very good points…but the rest of you are obviously out of touch with society and our community….I agree with you Qui, I too am a single mother, college graduate, and full time employee…and I will be the second to say PEOPLE DO CHANGE! That didn't mean my child was not wanted by either of us…nor did it mean that we couldn't take care of her. Lets get the facts straight, just because you are married when you have kids doesn't mean you will be successful in your marriage or raising your child/children, or that the union will even last long enough for you conceive.

While marriage is imortant for several economic reasons…lets not forget that those same benefits are offered to common law (live-in) couples and that most couples in our community have been together so long, you, I and everyone else does not know the difference….

black men arent allergic to marriage but some become jaded. in college, i remember the girls chasing after the "cool" brothers and leaving the "good" brothers on the sidelines. now that age has shown its head, we "good" ones are now looking for the younger ones and ignoring those who ignored us.

It's important to me. I always vowed that I would not have children out of wedlock b/c it just perpetuates the stereotype. I also believe that that showing children a healthy married relationship is important. Fathers offer children things that mothers and father figures can't.

Now that my husband and I are starting to talk about starting a family in real terms vs. we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, the idea of having children with my husband (the love of my life) is awesome. I can't imagine not sharing that and just popping a kid out on my own.

Marriage is very important in the community… we all want a 1 carat (minimum) engagement ring like the one pictured above. And an incredible manicure too…

But why bother having kids ? Just kidding.

Fortunatly, our modern societies are allowing us the freedom to marry for love and not only to reproduce. The same way having kids is not forcing us into marriage anymore… except when you're Jessica Alba's fiancé maybe !

I believe in the idea of marriage and think it is the foundation for a strong family (and a strong community). I think marriage is optimal over singlehood.

If people can't see how the lack of two parent households has an affect on the community, I really don't know what to say. I don't believe in getting into a relationship in order as a way to trap someone to have children, or staying in an abusive situation or broken relationship just for the sake of the children doesn't do any good either. My bottom line is if I'm not married, then there's no children. I know myself, and single parenthood is not in the cards; but if it happens after being in the established relationship, then that's different. If it's meant for me to be one, it would be the traditional way.

Gee. It's kind of hard to get all passionate and invested in the institution of marriage when it's not afforded to me or my beloved of thirteen years - the other mother of our super-awesome, kick ass five year old daughter Afro Thunder. Must be nice. Too bad lesbians don't count when it comes to making a family.

The bond between lovers and the family they create is spiritual. Marriage is legal. My parents have been happily married (mostly, anyway) for 32 years and i'm proud to have them as our role models - one of the best pieces of wisdom they gave me was that marriage is an institution. So marriage in and of itself is lovely in theory, but we need to keep a greater perspective when debating its pros, cons and essence.

Come to San Francisco!

LOL@BMD