In this election year its going to be racism vs age(ism)

Racism- I have pictures of black men and women being lynched firmly implanted in my mind. It is something about those pictures that you can never forget.
http://images.search.yahoo.com.....&tt=25
The pics of Jews in the concentration camps bother me too.

With the exception of the Salam witch trials, and sexism in this country does not come close. Women in this country have not had bands of men chase after them with the desire to kill them for entertainment or revenge. I am black and female and racism is on a different level in this country.

I need to see the female Emmet Till before I can say that sexism and racism are the same.

chic - sexism is a HUGE problem in this country (as in most) don't sleep on how it affects your life or the women around you. how many times have you heard "she was asking for it", or been called honey or babe by a man? been ogled much? i could go on and on, but what's the point? that being said, i do feel that racism is a bigger problem in this country. i feel that it is one of the worst problems we have in this country. in my personal experience, racism is worse because i am better equipped to handle a piggish man because i encounter sexism more than racism in my community. racism cuts deeper. both (and all) isms are senseless. it's effing BORING to be the "stereotypical" anything.

"This is not a question of which form of oppression is worse…"

For me, both -isms are inextricably linked, woven into one another like a lattice… I can't appear to be only one or the other on a certain day (there's no experimental "control"), and I can't know what it feels like to be second or third to last in the world's racial or gender heirarchy on any level — then again, I am still cis-gendered. I've experienced life as an object in one world and a non-entity in another, and it's annoying to feel as if there's no real solace anywhere except in my own mind, where I get to be equal to all by my own measure, with no caveats and no preponderance of evidence necessary. As for what I'm more sensitized towards… I used to put up a "block" in regards to subtle forms of racism as a reaction to what I felt was my father's oversensitivity to it. In addition to that, most of my life has been spent around other black people, so sexism was all I had to deal with — I discovered modern-day American racism through the Internet, of all places — and it was nigh impossible to desensitize yourself to foreign hands on your body and people joking to each other about how they have the opportunity to rape you — as if your will meant only as much as the proximity of the nearest man that would deign to protect you. Nowadays, I'm becoming about equally attuned to both, and damn, do they ever make my misanthropy bloom.

@Chic Noir I have pictures of black men and women being lynched firmly implanted in my mind.

That was the only credible part of your post.

It's amazing to me how anyone can believe racism trumps sexism. To not see the equal ugliness (and reality) of both is just bananas.

I'd say I'm more desensitized to sexism. You could even say that sexism is a norm in most societies. Men of all races are sexist. But I think the real issue is classifying what is sexist? I think that both males and females contribute to the sexism that goes on today. For example, A LOT of women are willing to be stay-at-home moms. There's also the scientific differences btwn man and woman that promote sexism as well.

Both, I am equally pissed when someone is negative towards me for being black and/or a woman.

Saying all men of all races are sexist, is not a valid excuse for sexism. For centuries it was "normal" to kidnap and enslave people on plaintaions halfway around the world, Jim Crow, women not being allowed to own property or vote. Gay people were classified in the medical texts as mentally ill up to the early 70's in this country.

I can go on and on about what used to be "normal".

Btw, how is being a stay at home mom contributing to sexism?? There are no significant differences between female and male brains.

What does promote sexism is male insecurity, and fear of intelligent women.

I believe race trumps all.

Sexism bothers me more. I can completely see how a minority group can be marginalized and mistreated. It's not right but it makes sense.

It is so difficult when more than 50% of the population gets the same treatment and it's so much worse when a woman does this to other women. Pick a group. We're our own worst enemies.

Racism….

Don't get me wrong, since my first day in women's studies class as an undergrad when I HAD to be the voice of ALL black women in my completely blonde and blue eyed class I've been fighting the feminist fight….bell hooks collection and all…. both -isms are ridiculously impossible to comprehend but there is nothing like the undercut feeling of knowing that reaction on that white woman's/man's (or ignorant Black folk's) face is from the color of your skin

I have yet, in this lifetime, had racism work in my favor. There hasn't been a day where dealing with a racist has resulted in any good things coming my way. Sexism? It's got its upsides. And women use it like water. My problem with white feminists is that they benefit from both the racism and the sexism inherent in the system and then want to cry about their oppression.

As a black woman,I can't choose, racism and sexism both anger me. Both have ignorant people of both genders and all races who still think one mindedly and judge a person by their ethnicity and/or their gender.

Racism bothers me more, because skin color and ethnic origin don't tell you anything about a person. It's arbitrary and illogical.

Sexism bothers me less, because I am female and I have never felt my gender kept me from doing, saying, thinking or defending anything important to me. It's hard for me to understand the "oppression" so many women seem to feel. It also makes me a little bit of a misogynist- I think sexism is to a great extent our own goddamn fault. We'll keep getting the short end of the stick so long as we seem to be inclined to accept it.

@Soitiare:

Huh? I'm not making justifying or making any "excuses" for sexism. I made that statement becuz it's true.

We live in a sexist society. Women are not seen (and have not been since the beginning of time) as equal to men. Women (from a young age) are taught to be submissive, loyal, respectful and to serve their husbands. A female is seen as "un-feminine" if she's bold, free-minded, independant, etc. Like I said b4, these feelings towards women are the "norm" of many societies. An since they're considered to be normal, sexism is usually overlooked. It also doesn't help that women themselves are part of the blame for it.

Regarding my "housewife" comment:
I think that housewives play into the stereotype that "a woman's place is at home."

Both isms irk me a great deal. As a Black woman, I'm unable to pick my poison.

I don't know how old any of you are, but I wasn't raised to be "submissive", or to do anything less than reach my own potential. There is a big divide between young women who are coming into their own now and older women who had to fight real discrimination.

And in defense of housewives, the whole notion that women were imprisoned in the home is a very recent one. Making a home work took a tremendous amount of effort when most people were subsistence farmers, only a few generations ago. Every generation since the beginning of the industrial age has been a social experiment, so I hate the pervasive notion some feminists seem to have that men have kept women chained to the stove against their will for 6,000 years.

Both suck. But as a black woman I have to say that sexist behaviors confounds me more in my everyday life because they are not so clearly delineated. I know when I'm confronted with racism, there's never a doubt and I'm confident in my abilities to deal with it. But sexism? so murky…

I agree with everyone who says both -isms are bad, frustrating, etc., but especially agree with those who say we're more desensitized to sexism. Modern racism (in my mostly-big-city experience, anyway) is more subtle - it's there, but racists at least know (barring the usual extra-idiotic exceptions) that there are certain things people just cannot say in polite company. But I think people are more unabashed about their sexism.

@Gourd: Exactly! Sexism is a bit "murky" in comarison to racism.

There's a good reason why sexism is "murkier" and "more subtle". If you really want to wall yourself off from people of other races, it is possible. However, unless you feel like taking monastic vows, it's nearly impossible to live in a single-gender environment. Odds are, you have lived for an extended period with someone of the opposite sex. Thus notions about gender are much more personal and closer to home than racism for most of us.

di-my-e, I am not undercutting sexism. I agree with your comment in its entirety. As you said, racism cuts so much deeper for some reason. Maybe it's because we as women are socialized to accept some forms of sexism as "boys being boys".

how many times have you heard “she was asking for it”.

I’ve heard and read a lot of this about the little girl/teenager that R.Kelly molested.

daria said: much worse when a woman does this to other women.
This is why I am bothered by the way which Hillary and Michelle are treated by the media, and the fact that so many women are willing to cosign. It seems at times that R. Kelly's victim was/is being demonized most often by women.

Ike- Women are not seen (and have not been since the beginning of time) as equal to men

Actually, Ike, this started when people moved away from hunter/gather societies and onto agrarian type of living.

khia213 said It’s got its upsides. And women use it like water.
Yes, many of us do, even if it's flirty with the officer so we can avoid a ticket.

Racism bothers me more. Living in a predominantly White town, I am the sole representative of black people in many situations, especially in school. I'm usually the only Black person in my class. I have to deal with White (and Hispanic kids) and teachers who have racist assumptions about Black people. I have to feel the discomfort of walking into some place filled with White people and having all eyes on me from the time I walk through the door until I reach my destination. I don't have the same thing as a woman. So much of the racism comes from the fact that many of the people I just described are have little to no interaction with Black people. But all men interact with women. They have mothers, sisters, girlfriends, etc. Not that they can't still be sexist of course. But since entering the "real world" the sexism I face does not match the racism. I think racism bothers me more because people are racist without realizing it, so when you try to explain what they are doing they're completely dumbfounded.

@ rhymes with silver, it's funny you mention that because i would say my mother is my inspiration for my blunt outspokenness, but is also the reason why i make sure all things domestic are on the up and up. weird…

This is why I am bothered by the way which Hillary and Michelle are treated by the media, and the fact that so many women are willing to cosign. It seems at times that R. Kelly’s victim was/is being demonized most often by women.
Absolutely. Actually, at times, the most sexist ones are women because goodness who go above and beyond what some men will say just so a man will kiss them on the forehead and say, "ah, why can't the rest of the broads be like you?"

Both are bad. Can't say which is worse really. Racism makes sense to me. Every society needs its scapegoats and whipping boys. It makes sense to me that racial and ethnic minorities have this burden. It's not right, but it makes sense. Sexism makes no sense. At the end of the day, everyone's worse off as a result.

“ah, why can’t the rest of the broads be like you?”

sad confession:
When I was much younger I would take pride in this^^.